While I don't want the purpose of this blog to vary from its core, opinions and commentary on various aspects of the UT Arlington Mavericks Athletic Department, I have been contemplating in recent years how to do a little more, take it to the next level if you will. I attempted what follows last year, but obviously it didn't work, likely due to user error. I took a different approach, shook a few more hands and viola.
On Friday afternoon, I had the genuine pleasure of a sit-down question and answer session "on the record" with the Athletic Director at UT Arlington, Jon Fagg. While I intended to make the interview a singular blog post, he allowed me to keep going. My thought process was if he offered 30 minutes, I was going to take 31. However, he let me go for over an hour and a half. As such, I really have to break it down into multiple parts.
While I picked his brain about quite a bit of items, the drive home was filled with internal questions about things I should have followed up on more than I did, it was only natural. I did hit a lot of main points though. There is quite a bit of information in the conversation.
With that said, the Maverick Rambler presents its one-on-one with the AD.
The Maverick Rambler: I want to tell you how excited I am. I couldn't sleep very well. Just I was ready to do this.
Jon Fagg: You're going to be sorely disappointed.
TMR: No, I can guarantee you I will not be disappointed.
JF: I'm not that smart.
TMR: No, so there's a few things I definitely want to hit on. It's probably been one of the most headline years this last year.
JF: It's been a busy year for sure.
TMR: For background, I was a student, a student broadcaster. I was Josh Sours before Josh was going to school.
JF: Yup. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, I remember.
TMR: So I still have some contacts within the athletic department. It really is amazing how long some people have tenure here.
JF: Yeah, yeah, sure.
TMR: And so sometimes I will informally ask them just a little bit of information. And I will tell you this: As far as the UAC (United Athletic Conference) goes, everybody says... for example, at the women's championships, tennis championships, I was like "hey, what's...what's the future going to look like." And they said, "well Jon is telling us something in June."
JF: (chuckling) yeah.
TMR: You kept whatever it was under wraps.
JF: (still chuckling) Yeah, no we did, yeah, yeah, yeah.
TMR: So tell me about the UAC.
JF: It was something that was formulated in a couple of different places, meaning they are kind of concepts. And it started coming together a little bit. There was a group of people who said "yeah, this is a possibility," and I'll explain what it is exactly. But this kind of a different concept might work. You have to have some willing participants. There are some moving parts. And so those moving parts took a while to get going, right. I love stuff. So I love learning all at once...so I kind of pull from weird places. It took a while for the potential energy, chemistry and all, the potential energy was building. It took a while for it to build before we could actually turn it into kinetic energy.
TMR: I something that the Summit League... Somebody put out a couple of days ago, the Summit League was one, one entity that the WAC (Western Athletic Conference) approached.
JF: Right. There was some thought that a couple of conferences might do these kinds of things. And so it just took a while. But we could see it coming. We thought it could work. We desperately wanted to keep it under wraps, especially if it failed, for some reasons.
TMR: Sure, sure. Well, this hadn't been done before.
JF: No, it hasn't. Or at least we don't think so, you know. This is my description only. I can't automatically speak for everybody. But the concept is: first of all, for the WAC. The WAC is not going away. The WAC did not disband. It is not disbanding, it is rebranding to the UAC and adding schools. Because it is down schools, we are adding schools, rebranding away from WAC to the United Athletic Conference. That's pretty simple.
TMR: Yeah.
JF: Right. That's what conferences do all the time. We are taking schools from the Atlantic Sun. So then what will happen is the Atlantic Sun and United Athletic Conference are forming a consortium. Think roughly, the technical term, the reason it is a consortium is its separate entities who work together with some shared governance costs and interactions, right. The UAC and Atlantic Sun will ally, will cooperate, collaborate to share as many costs as we can, from an administrative standpoint. And so a couple of examples of that are multi-media rights for example, right. Hercules Tires is the sponsor of the WAC basketball tournament. That's a sponsorship. We can have a better chance, presumably or theoretically, to have bigger sponsors that will have access to more institutions, more footprint, more markets, right. And so that's an example. Broadcast rights. You can go to ESPN or Barstool or FloSports or any of these places, CBS Sports, and say now, we have basically, the ideal number - we'd have 15-20 schools - that we're ... we are able to negotiate for. Two different conferences, two basketball tournaments, you just have more inventory. It just seems like there's some safety and collaborative effort in numbers.
And so it's a pretty cool opportunity. I was really excited about it. It went from ... joint, what our conference options were, and we had several... At one point, it went kinda literally like in one day, it went from the bottom to the top. I was like... I don't know, I'm just worried it's not going to work and all these things. Then all of a sudden we hit a place where we were like either we are going have to do this or not. And I'm like "we should do this, this is awesome."
TMR: Are you able to divulge what the other options would have been?
JF: Uuhhmmm, I'd prefer not to. I just think that's fair to everybody. But we had multiple options. You know, we are a big, R1 research institution in the heart of eight and half million people.
TMR: (nodding in agreement) yup.
JF: In an incredible TV market, an incredible recruiting market, for both the students and athletes. And so we're pretty popular. It took me a minute. Like it took me, when all the destabilization really started a year, year and a half ago, really whatever it would have been now, I was really worried, just because... I was worried. And then all of a sudden after things, you know... it was clear that there might be a need for us to go somewhere, but we just had outreach.
TMR: Well, under your predecessor, the Missouri Valley reached out, for example.
JF: Yup, those kinds of things.
TMR: Obviously that didn't work out for various reasons, but I say that to say the...the thing that excites me a little bit more than, say, that option, was we have Tarleton down the road. We have Abilene Christian a little further down the road. We've got something where we can build a rivalry with the geographic rivals. Their fans can come to our place, our fans can go..., like I went to Moody this past year. A great environment for basketball. I feel...Summit League for example. Oral Roberts is close and that's it.
JF: Yeah.
TMR: So this is, to me, probably the best case scenario that I can think of.
JF: Yeah, I do think it was really, really collaborative and enjoyable, the Texas schools. You know, we made concertive efforts to communicate as much as we could. Because you can't communicate all the time. You gotta keep some things to yourself. But we all tried really hard to collaborate, communicate and kind of stick together. If possible. We said we wanted to stick together until we couldn't. And we managed to do it.
TMR: In the end, they are also out for their best... Tarleton
JF: Yes.
TMR: They want FBS (Football Bowl Subdivision). We know they want FBS.
JF: Yeah, exactly. But we all stick together in all. So we have some geographic rivalries in the principle of the United Athletic Conference should be more geographic than the WAC was.
TMR: I think so too, yeah.
JF: And as we look to expand we ... the intention is, clearly, to expand kind of in the footprint. East-west, not too far north-south.
TMR: You mentioned the footprint. It's almost what ... the old Sun Belt again.
JF: Yeah, exactly, yeah.
TMR: Maybe not a little further east in the Carolinas.
JF: And I've had questions about well now we are a non-football playing school in a football conference again. And I'm like, you know, yeah, that's true. Technically. I don't think it's the same. First of all, it's FCS (Football Championship Subdivision) versus FBS football. I think our place in this league is much different than I perceive our place in the Sun Belt would have been.
TMR: I think that there was always an expectation that football was on the horizon. We had feasibility studies and everybody was looking into that.
JF: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
TMR: I can go into a list and have on the blog before, but ... it just...
JF: But once that it did not appear quick enough for the Sun Belt, it...it...
TMR: It is what it is.
JF: Yeah, so...
TMR: So you mentioned 20 schools?
JF: Mm hmm.
TMR: My thought process is the fewer mouths to feed, the bigger the pie.
JF: I meant within the consortium.
TMR: Sure. But you mentioned 20 schools rather 15, I think is the total. Eight and seven.
JF: 15, yeah, yeah.
TMR: So is there ... Talk about the expansion prospects.
JF: You know, I think there is a fine line between too small and too big.
TMR: Especially at our level.
JF: Right. If it's too small and you lose a member, you're in trouble immediately. You know, there's some grace periods, but they're not long.
TMR: Right.
JF: Certainly, personally, I don't want us to be too big. I agree. More mouths to feed, the worse, you know, the more schools you compete against, in my mind, kinda the more luck you have to have. You have to be great, but you still need ... everybody needs luck to win championships a little bit, somewhere.
TMR: Well, I'll go to 2017 Sun Belt team we had, that ...
JF: Right.
TMR: That ran through the tournament and then we got Texas State's best game.
JF: Yeah, right, exactly. You just gotta have a little luck. Anyway, so, you know, personally, we need to expand in my mind. But we don't need, in the UAC, we don't need ten more schools.
TMR: No.
JF: We need... these are my numbers right, we need two, four.
TMR: I think ten is manageable.
JF: Yeah, ten is manageable. 12, possibly if you needed to.
TMR: If you could just find the school that would give you a second NCAA bid or another unit that's one thing...
JF: Yeah! That would be great.
TMR: I don't think they are out there...
JF: Yeah, those are very difficult to find, for anybody.
TMR: So you mentioned talking with, with other schools. Who was involved in the process of making the UAC?
JF: Uhmm, I won't say names. But the kinds of people, right? AD's (athletic directors), presidents, chancellors, commissioners, you know, conference-type people. And then, you know, some usually some really trusted colleagues, you know, somewhere in the world. You know, someone that you know you can talk to and say "hey, here's what I'm looking at. Is this a good idea or not?" You know, a couple of different layers of people in my world, thankfully, in my network, that I can call that I know are not going to repeat things, that I can bounce ideas off. I might not use names of conferences, but "hey, we have another conference that's interested in this idea that this is what we would do. Does that sound smart? Does it sound legal?"
TMR: (laughing) Sure!
JF: "What pit falls do you see?" So yeah, it comes across, ultimately, ultimately the decision to change conferences or add members, subtract members, whatever it might look like, are presidents and commissioners. I advise our president and she takes my input. But it's her decision. And she makes great decisions because she's really smart.
TMR: I was going to ask about that later, but it seems y'all have a really ... a really good working relationship.
JF: I think the absolute world of her. I mean, I'm not, I'm not saying that to say it nicely. I'm not trying to be friendly. I joke with her about it pretty regularly that I'm not even trying to make you feel good. But I really, really enjoy working with her. She's a brilliant woman. She's really practical. Her academic discipline is practical. It's urban planning, city planning.
TMR: That's what my Masters was in.
JF: Oh wow. And so, you know, she's straightforward and able to communicate and all these things. I've worked for a couple of chancellors in my life where, you know, they are brilliant academicians. You know, like I've worked for a neuroscientist, some of these kind of things. And they are brilliant. Sometimes it is difficult for them to communicate.
TMR: And the people skills aren't there.
JF: Yeah. And so, things like that. And so she's a wonderful person. Her, and the Provost Tamara Brown, are just really, like just really working to try and make UTA great.
TMR: Well, not every school has that.
JF: No they do not.
TMR: Look at Louisiana-Monroe for example. They can not get on the same page.
JF: Yeah...so in that regard, we have a great working relationship. We speak often, whatever that means. But we, you know, certainly we have, you know, scheduled interactions. But then we see each other all the time. She loves athletics. She's super busy, but she loves athletics.
TMR: Yeah, I see her quite often.
JF: Yeah, she gets here every time she can. And I remind her that she should lead the University. The best way she can help athletics is to lead the University.
TMR: I remember her...full-time predecessor, he was always visible.
JF: Yup.
TMR: It creates a, creates a ... 'cause when I was a student, you didn't see that.
JF: As an alum, you guys should be really excited.
TMR: I love seeing those faces.
JF: The future is really bright.
TMR: I'm going to hold off on that topic just a second, I kind of jumped the ship a little bit.
JF: No, whatever you want to do.
TMR: WAC has their headquarters down the street. Is that going to change?
JF: I don't...I hope not. I don't believe so. I think, I love the fact that they're close. From a personal standpoint, that was one of the factors in me wanting to come here. I've been close to a conference office and far away from a conference office and I...
TMR: I can't imagine what you had to go through in Arkansas.
JF: Yeah, we were just farther away.
TMR: Yeah, Fayetteville is isolated from everything.
JF: Yeah, I'm not picking because I want to pick on people, you know, Alabama could drive down the road, you know 45 minutes or whatever it was and be at the conference office.
TMR: Yeah.
JF: When I was at NC State if I needed something from the ACC (Atlantic Coast Conference), I could drive down the road and meet, see them and be back before lunch.
TMR: Or even have lunch together.
JF: Yeah, you know have lunch together. And so I do, I like the proximity of the conference. I'm proud and happy that they're here and I don't believe they are going to leave and I hope they don't.
TMR: So the WAC banner will change to the UAC banner down the street?
JF: Yup.
TMR: My kind of reading between the lines is Jeff Bacon going to be the Commissioner of both?
JF: Uhm, no. I believe, I should say. In all seriousness, I try not to speak totally with authority, just in case something changes.
TMR: Sure.
JF: But no, we'll have the Commissioner of the WAC, I mean, excuse me, commissioner of the UAC. Commissioner of the Atlantic Sun, which I presume will be Jeff Bacon. And then Jeff Bacon, I believe, will be the first Executive Director - or whatever title, but I thinks that's going to be it - Executive Director of the Consortium.
TMR: So I believe it is Rebekah (Ray) is Commissioner now.
JF: Yeah.
TMR: I assume she'll stay Commissioner.
JF: Yeah, I'd assume so. Yea, I'd assume so. I mean, I do not know that. But I would assume.
TMR: Yeah, I kind of got the idea reading, it was like, hey, one office for both leagues, something like that to reduce...
JF: Yeah, but I don't know that it would... I mean it may be one office at some point. It's not...
TMR: So it's fluid?
JF: Yeah, yea, it's fluid. I mean in my mind, it's not to start.
TMR: You made it kind of clear. But I just want to put it out there, because a lot of people said "the WAC's going away, whatever." The 1963 records are still going to be the UAC's?
JF: Uhm, yes, I believe, yes.
TMR: The most points scored in a, in a basketball season will still be...
JF: I would assume...I think all these things we're also having to figure out for ourselves. But I would imagine it might be a UAC record and a conference record, you know, of some kind. That's a good question.
TMR: Yeah, it came up on one of the message boards and of course, it's "well, it's got to be a new conference because they have new records." I'm like, they just changed the name.
JF: Yeah, we're changing the name. So I'd imagine there would be some recognition of WAC along the way and, it's a good point and we'll make sure we talk about it.
TMR: So in this scenario, with multiple teams, men's tennis and then Abilene Christian are the only two schools that sponsor it. So I'm assuming they are going to have a home in the ASUN for conference play.
JF: Right.
TMR: What are they going to do this year?
JF: ASUN.
TMR: Okay.
JF: I've not made that public. But yes, that's what it will be. That's what we intend to do. We have not signed an agreement with them.
TMR: But you don't foresee any issues with y'all working together?
JF: No, we don't.
TMR: Yeah, they've been the most successful team on campus the last few years, so it would have been frustrating to be an independent.
JF: Yeah. We don't want them to be an independent. We want to make sure they have a path to the NCAA Tournament.
TMR: Bear with me on this question.
JF: Sure.
TMR: I know some fans would just love the opportunity to get this answer. I'm going to put a lot of, uhm...
JF: Sure.
TMR: ...preamble into this one.
JF: Okay.
TMR: Sun Belt's a great example of our... our kind of relationship with referees about some fans complaining about this.
JF: Okay.
TMR: And I've always been under the impression that referees, sure maybe in one scenario. But you played 39 minutes prior, all that kind of stuff.
JF: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
TMR: So I'm usually not giving that mind. Like I'm not one of those conspiracy theorists. But I have to say, I'm very, very frustrated with some of the officiating I've seen the last couple of years.
JF: (laughing) right.
TMR: And I'll use an example. In Phoenix, Lance Ware gets kicked in the head. They review it and oh, no, no problem.
JF: Right, yeah, sure.
TMR: In the conference tournament, he says something they don't like he gets tossed.
JF: Right, yeah, yeah.
TMR: Who is going to be in charge of officiating in the future? And who's going to be in charge of WAC officiating this year? Is there going to be kind of a change there?
JF: Right. There will be no... there is not a requirement to change. We have officials that we have used in the WAC and the consortium that we are in with that. You know, those are usually partnerships with multiple conferences and the coordinator helps make sure all the conferences with their pool of referees, has work and has a schedule that works through that. That make senses?
TMR: Mm hmm. I know ours was paired with like, the West Coast Conference, I wanna say.
JF: Right, right.
TMR: The Big West.
JF: Yeah, yeah. And so we may stay with them. We might not. Those are decisions that, as a conference, we make. We review pretty regularly. And so that, so that may or may not change. But same concepts. We might get a slightly different pool of officials or things like that.
And, this is just because, like and, officials. They are just human, right.
TMR: Right.
JF: Basketball officiating is so hard.
TMR: I agree.
JF: Also, because, like, I just love this description, because I've always struggled with it actually. So in football, the play starts, they run the ball, the guys takes off running, it's clear he's going to score a touchdown and they blow the whistle and say, "whoa, whoa, whoa. It's a false start. We blew the whistle before the snap started." And we start over.
The flow of basketball doesn't let you do that the same way. But I've been an advocate of slowing down whistles for a long time.
TMR: And the WAC does not do that.
JF: Well no, really, nobody does. You know, the anticipation whistle is always tough. But it's really difficult that if I, if I left the play play out, as an official, and say "oaky, I'm going to give my brain time to process what I just saw, it looks like I blew the whistle late."
TMR: Yea.
JF: You know, and AAGGHH, now you decide what you were doing. I...I'm a former official, football official. And I love the idea of...again, slowing down. If we could every get there, probably have to build in incremental slow, you know, slowing. But, you know, give your brain a moment to process what you just did. And, this has nothing to do, because we don't have anything to say about it nor don't have the ability to change it. I love the idea of football, you can wave the flag off.
TMR: Yeah.
JF: You know, you can't wave every flag off, but you can wave most.
TMR: Well the idea was that video replay would help some of that.
JF: Yeah.
TMR: But I don't feel like we've gotten there.
JF: Yeah, you can't decide that, oh, there really wasn't a foul, or even the severity of a foul. Did they travel? Did they step, you know? You can step out of bounds and you can do some things. You can review and change a call. But it's hard to change, you know, some things about the game.
TMR: I'd also say the added challenge, you have three guys watching ten in probably the fastest paced game.
JF: Yeah, yea.
TMR: Maybe there's a couple of NCAA sports we don't have, but baseball, softball certainly isn't as fast paced. Tennis can be but...
JF: The flow of basketball is different than the flow of other sports.
TMR: It's also a much more confined space you're dealing with. And like I said, I ... in the Sun Belt, I'm just like it is what it is. These last two seasons watching ... he's graduated so I don't think he'll have a problem. Watching Shemar Wilson feel like his season was taken from him, his senior year was taken from him.
JF: Right, sure.
TMR: That's, that's hard to watch. So, like I said, I'm normally not all that bandwagon.
JF: That's alright, it's good.
TMR: Well maybe, with the consortium...
JF: Yeah, I mean it adds, it adds to the ability to attract officials. I mean I think it should.
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